TCS Daily


Courage in Profiles

By Ralph Kinney Bennett - June 5, 2006 12:00 AM

Hooray for Canadian law enforcement!

Hooray for profiling!

As the story unfolds of the arrest of 17 suspected Islamic terrorists and the seizure of a huge cache of explosive materials, Canadians, Americans, and free men everywhere can be thankful that the Canadian police and intelligence services had the courage to profile.

We don't know a lot of details yet, and frankly, I hope we don't learn too much about the method and manner of this investigation (we've told the enemy far too much already in this war), but it seems clear that Canadian security services were looking very closely at certain types of men. Gosh, it seems they were all "Middle Eastern types" and, as the Washington Post reported, they "all had Arabic names."

H-m-m-m.

As we have pointed out before here despite all the pretended piety over profiling, it continues to be one of the most important tools of preventive law enforcement.

Even when those rare exceptions that prove the rule are taken into account, profiling is efficient and effective.

Yes, it's problematic, too. A recent article by Neil MacFarquhar, of the New York Times, was headlined in my local paper "Muslims find travel in U.S. tough on psyche."

The story notes that while getting through airports and across borders has been tougher for everyone since 9/11, "Muslim Americans say they are having a harder time than most, sometimes facing an intimidating maze of barriers, if not outright discrimination."

Well the fact is law enforcement must discriminate as never before. It must make clear distinctions. It must differentiate. It must perceive the distinguishing features of terrorists and would-be terrorists. Unfortunately, thanks to the Islamofascists and the indelible and undeniable fingerprints they have left in New York, Washington, London, Madrid and elsewhere around the globe, square one in this exercise is usually at some mosque, where Muslims, usually of Arabic descent, gather.

In this particular case, a "store front" mosque in Mississauga, Ontario, the Al Rahman Islamic Center for Islamic Education, has been reported as the regular meeting place of 6 of the 17 persons arrested in the alleged terrorist plot to blow up various important sites in and around Toronto.

Canadian authorities are well aware that a number of investigations of possible Muslim plots in the past have come apart after initial arrests were made. They are taking this case very seriously, and it seems they would not have risked clandestine assets and made it public unless a clear and present danger existed.

But their initial reluctance to release much information has of course aroused anger and suspicion among Canadian Muslims and inevitable speculation in both the American and Canadian press about the validity of the plot.

The imam of a suburban Toronto mosque told the New York Times "we are being targeted not because of what we've done, but because of who we are and what we believe in."

Well... no. And... yes. Canadian Muslims are not being "targeted." Certain Muslims in Canada are being singled out because they appear to have been targeting the Canadian people and their institutions. They are being singled out because they believe in the cold-blooded murder of anyone who does not share their beliefs. They are being singled out because of their quaint belief that a solidly packed container of ammonium nitrate with a detonator attached is somehow a petition for redress of imagined grievances. They are the profile within the profile.

Just as many innocent Muslims must put up with the unfair onus of guilt by association and the blind anger of a small corner of the public (mosques vandalized etc.), so Canadian law enforcement must put up with the unfair and ignorant accusations that they are somehow, preying on Muslims as a whole. In the fetid atmosphere of political correctness that seems to have settled over much of Canada, that takes real courage.

The point is, even if this whole Canadian investigation somehow were to unravel, the grim, quiet, veiled and sometimes untidy life-and-death struggle that the security services have been waging -- a struggle that involves profiling and skillful discrimination -- is right, vital and necessary and must continue.

Ralph Kinney Bennett is a TCS contributing editor.

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59 Comments

Targeted
"The imam of a suburban Toronto mosque told the New York Times "we are being targeted not because of what we've done, but because of who we are and what we believe in."

Any westerner living in the middle east knows the feeling.
Maybe the imam might send word back for their associates to stop discriminating against Christians and other westerners.

snooping
From the early reports that I have seen, part of the investigation involved listening in on international phone calls made by the subjects.

Toronto Imam
"The imam of a suburban Toronto mosque told the New York Times "we are being targeted not because of what we've done, but because of who we are and what we believe in.""

Radical islamists are being "targeted" because of what other radical islamists have done, or have been discovered trying to do. or have sworn to do. The whole point of the exercise is to find them BEFORE they've done something which results in large scale death and/or destruction.

If the imam and his followers are radical islamists, then he is correct in stating that they are being targeted "because of who we are and what we believe in." If they are not radical islamists, they are not being "targeted". They are being looked at because it is far more reasonable to look for radical islamists among adherents to Islam than at the local Catholic or Jewish clubs, or the VFW, or the Moose Lodge.

I am sure the imam realizes that if he publicly rejected islamist radicalism and banned radicals from his mosque, he would have nothing to fear from the RCMP; however, he might well fear the radical islamists, who seem not to be opposed to killing muslims who oppose them, or do not support their radicalism.

The imam may feel that he and his followers are "between a rock and a hard place"; however, they were not put there by the RCMP, but rather by fanatics who claim to follow the Quran as they do.

Everyone who teaches hate literature should properly be monitored
I hope the FBI is keeping an eye on the Ku Klux Klan, the American Nazi Party and NAMBLA.

Just the same I hope it's keeping an eye on folks who teach from an evil book that proclaims it a duty to kill unbelievers.

I absolutely refuse to believe it........
Muslims arrested in Canada for possible terrorist attacks?
I am so shocked that again NO MUSLIM ANYWHERE IN THAT HUGE NATION DID NOT TIP OFF THE GOVERNMENT TO PREVENT THE ATTACKS. IT WAS JUST GREAT POLICE WORK. Someone remind me, it was Irish dudes who blew up the Twin Towers, the London Tube, the Madrid trains, and slaughtered 362 school children in Russia right? The evidence is out there everyday that muslims love peace, are highly tolerant, and respectful to all non-muslims. Right?

How do you know
that there was no assistance from the Muslim community? The police and CSIS has been exceptionally quiet about the course of the investigation, and if they had assistance within the community, the last thing they would do is tell everyone about it.

How do you know there WAS?!?
If there was help from muslims we would be hearing and reading about it for 24 hours a day straight weeks on end praising the good citizenship of our local muslims. They need all the good publicity they can get and there is none out in the world. After all these attacks in the name of islam you have the nerve to question good muslim intentions. As I said before, did you ever hear of any in the past? No. Hold on here... this is amazing... I am now receiving a fax here from "The Daily Idiot" stating that all the names of the 9-11 attackers names ranged from O'Malley, Houlihan, Sullivan, and a certain woman named Eileen Murray. It was a huge plot to frame muslims and they were never involved. Maybe you are one of those intellects who prefer to find out everything the hard way by denying reality. Shame on you for asking such a foolish question. I am sure you would not be so gracious if you or 1 of your relatives were killed in a terrorist attack, but hey, if it does not happen to me, who cares? Right?

I never said there was,
You on the other hand claimed there was no assistance, so I wanted to know how you knew that. Your previous post simply alleged that if they had, it would have been trumpeted publicly, a foolish notion if you know anything about police and counter-terrorism work.

Please forgive me I am so embarrassed I must hide.
The reality is eavesdropping devices used by the Canadian Police picked them up as you see many muslims are not notoriously efficient. They kill as many of us as they do themselves. I know more than you as I have never been fooled by muslims or any of their promises or denials. Now, I must depart Deputy Barney Fife is calling me for lunch.

You should be embarrassed
for such blatant bigotry, or are you pretending that only muslims are subject to religious fanaticism within their number?

I've posted information on another TCS website re this subject.
Starting with:

http://www.tcsdaily.com/discussionForum.aspx?fldIdTopic=8066&fldIdMsg=25058



I was being sarcastic, not embarrasssed, and no more bigoted than they are to us.
Muslims seem to be doing all the bombing, killing, beheadings, and kidnappings. What is up your butt with muslims? Why do you side with them? What have they done for you except kill? You better start being a bigot, pull your head out of the politically erect sand yourself, or you will end up on their hitlist you knucklehead.

P.S. Muslims say they are not all terrorists, but the problem is ALL MUSLIMS SEEM TO BE TERRORISTS ALWAYS ENGAGING IN TERRORIST ATTACKS. They just tried to blow up a chunk of Canada with women and children as obvious targets and YOU SAY I AM A BIGOT AND I SHOULD BE ASHAMED? The only thing I am ashamed is not confronting islam earlier than 9-11. You have no common sense. Dont worry, maybe soon your compatriots will get lucky and blow up another piece of our nation or Canada and I'm sure you will still be espousing the glories of peaceful islam. I cant wait to see that devil worshipping cult outlawed here in the western world and have already signed a petition to do so.

Thanks to ALLAN MCRAE........
Again, as I said before reading this info, I knew it had to be all Irish sounding names as muslims are a peaceful group of tolerant citizens.

Again, this was all done with no thanks to a single muslim, but just great police work and greater incompetence on part of muslims for being caught by the local authorities.

P.S. Are you happy now ColinH or is this information just propaganda and lies made to make your muslim buddies bad? Do you still think islam is a peaceful religion that needs a chance?
I am STILL WAITING for 1 example of muslims helping a western nation forestall an attack, but that will never happen.













And now ---
we will all hear from the bleeding heart liberals who would rather risk the welfare of our nation rather than offend a bunch of Muslims. Too bad!

If Muslims from other pats of the world feel intimidated here, let them remember who started this mess --- Mohammed (may pig entrails be upon him)! If they still feel uncomfortable, they can always leave Canada --- or the USA --- and go back to where they are "more comfortable." If they were so "comfortable" there, among their fellow terrorists, why are they here?

No, not all Muslims are going to fly a 767 into a building or bomb a bridge, but they are all guilty. Where was the outcry from the Muslim community on 9/11? My God! (NOT Allah!) The silence was deafening. Except for a perfunctory squeak here or there, there was no great condemnation of these actions from Muslims --- not even from American-born Muslims!!! What does this tell you about the insidious, mind-altering, murderous nature of Islam? It tells you that we'd best destroy Islam before it destroys us.

See the problem is this
when you say "P.S. Muslims say they are not all terrorists, but the problem is ALL MUSLIMS SEEM TO BE TERRORISTS ALWAYS ENGAGING IN TERRORIST ATTACKS."

Can you not see the obvious contradiction within this sentence of yours? All muslims are not terrorists, a few of them are. The trick is to distinguish between those who are and the majority who are not.

The only possible conclusion is that you are a racist bigot. The Friday arrests didn't even happen in the U.S. and you want to jump on the bash muslims bandwagon. For you it serves as nothing more than as a convenient excuse to condemn an entire religion of people whom you despise in any case.

Your religious bigotry is obvious: "I cant wait to see that devil worshipping cult outlawed here in the western world and have already signed a petition to do so." And, in so stating your religious principles, you have demonstrated in your own writing that you are just as intolerant as the muslim terrorists you condemn.

I just hope you find your white hood comfortable.

Keep waiting
but the last thing as I said before that the police are going to do is blab any secrets about informers or supporters into your shell-like ear. Or does it come as a complete surprise to you that the muslim religious community in Toronto has publicly condemned any terrorist activity that may take place among members of their religion?

I no more pretend that islam is a religion of peace than any religion is a religion of peace. All have their violent fanatics. What you are trying to do is hide your racism under a veil of religious hatred.

Now I am truly embarrassed.
I did not post this information to unleash a stupid racist diatribe - I did so in order that people could have reasonably reliable information with which to make informed judgments.

In my opinion, these young rats from Ontario do not represent Islam any more than the Oklahoma City bombers represent Christianity. They are violent imbeciles who misuse religion and they should rot in jail.

Absolutely correct
They are, if the public accounts have any bearing on the truth (presumption of innocence before the law etc.) spoiled brats misled by a misanthropic leader. But there are all too many, and you will see some of the posts in other threads as well who want to go on some sort of religious crusade, the sort of people who want to catch mice with carpet bombing.

Why should you be embarrassed? Heavyvinter and company have simply embarrassed themselves through overt racism. Someone who simply provides facts cannot be held accountable for what some vicious idiot perverts those facts into.

The problem for me is that such racist silliness might actually lend some false veneer of virtue to what the Mississauga plotters were trying to do if they can claim something like, "See? We are victims of oppression."

Muslims in Toronto condemned it. SO WHAT! That means nothing to....
Canadians! What did you expect them to do professor of apologists everywhere. RACISM WAS INVENTED BY ISLAM SO STOP KISSING THEIR BUTTS. You have all this evidence and still try to deflect their aggresions and acts of violence.
I cant believe the poison you people put on this website. Some things you say are so irresponsible they make more people dislike you. YOU are the racist and everyone believe it or not is racist to varying degrees. You are a huge one yourself, but deny it under the cloak of political erections. Remember, who started this war. If racism means taking all possible precautions to protect my nation and way of life....I am just fine. What term do you have for the muslims? Peace seekers and lovers of life? I did not need and secrets in my ear, I have common sense which is absent in your GED flunking mind. I knew it had to be the work of the Canadian agaencies BEFORE reading this posting.

You said
"RACISM WAS INVENTED BY ISLAM" (your shouting, not mine).

Really? Can you truly be that ignorant of history?

Evidence? What evidence? You have presented no evidence whatsoever to support your claim that all muslims are terrorists. What evidence has been presented is simply your own writing in which you reveal yourself to be a racist moron.

Common sense? You have neither that nor any other kind except nonsense, and vicious nonsense at that.

And that's QED to you, my baby-boiling friend.

You are truly hopeless and UNEDUCATED.
1. Islam and its koran have 109 verses justifying and encouraging rape,murder,kidnapping, and theft against ALL non-muslims. Get a copy...I have a copy I use as a cup coaster in my office.
2. Lying is encouraged and mandatory against us non-muslims so how do you know when they are telling the truth?
3. Muslim immigrants all over the world have never produced any help to us westerners on any future attacks. Can you produce a single name of any helpful muslim?
4. ALL MUSLIMS are terrorists. They are all actively plotting, shooting, and attempting bombings of western cities, while the rest provide cash, safehouses, cars, bank accounts, cell phones, and front companies calling themselves "Charity Organizations"
5. You said I have a hood? I dont wear one, but I hope your panties are not too tight as they are interfering with the blood circulation to your brain.
6. Who is boiling babies you pervert? I have done charity work over the years and how much have you done? I did not hate islam or muslims UNTIL 9-11 WHEN THEY MURDERED 3,047 of my people!! Now they are attempting to do more and you just throw up excuses for their continued attempt at new atrocities.
7. I will suggest to you that you read(It also comes in a picture book version for your type) "The Politically Incorrect Guide To Islam" It has the true and unblemished history of islam and its invention in the 8th century. Does it mean anything to you that the author of this book IS NOW LIVING IN SECLUSION AS HE HAS RECEIVED HUNDREDS OF THREATS ON HIS LIFE FOR PUTTING OUT THE TRUTH TO THE WORLD? How many islamic authors have been threatened and are now hiding from Christian death threats for writing an insulting article against us? ZERO!! Muslims and their governments daily threaten and bombard us with insults on all their major media outlets and you find that just fine?
This is the religion and people you defend. Can 1.2 billion muslims be wrong? I dont see any protests in their nations when muslims attack us and leave us with broken bodies in the streets. How many more people need to die at the hands of muslims to convince you that the whole group as a whole are out to destroy the west? I will just assume you are just a spoiled and spineless European who are the type to blame for allowing Europe to surrender to the cult of islam. Some people never learn no matter how much they see with their own eyes.

Keep talking
because with every word you write you show yourself to be a paranoid, racist idiot. As to the hood reference, surely even you can understand your similarity to the KKK. Not only do you know nothing of Middle East history, it is evident you know nothing of American history either. As to panties, the rest of us really don't want to know about your embarrassing personal habits.

You wrote, "How many islamic authors have been threatened and are now hiding from Christian death threats for writing an insulting article against us? ZERO!!"

Fascinating, truly fascinating. Of course you are too stupid to realize that every one of your posts is essentially a death threat.

You wrote "I did not hate islam or muslims UNTIL 9-11 WHEN THEY MURDERED 3,047 of my people!!"

So now we finally have the truth about you. Of course all muslims didn't do the killing, it was 15 specific, criminal individuals that did the killing, organized by a specific organization called Al Qaeda, driven by a specific creed called Wahhabism. But what you really show is that you are not interested in justice but in vengeance and mass murder.

Congratulations baby-boiler. You've successfully lowered yourself to the moral level of the 9/11 murderers.

You started with the hood comment so expect to get hit.
1. Who is threatening who? I am not threatening anybody. I am saying the author was given death threats. A point was being made of how Christians are above threatening people unlike your friends. I DID NOT THREATEN CANADA, unlike YOU and your buds. You truly have trouble reading AND comprehending. I was kidding about you having a GED, but I can see you DID NOT PASS IT.
2. Your friends numbered 19 NOT 15 and thanks agains for showing yourself to be misinformed, ignorant, and uneducated. I am very aware of wahhabism and that sect is currently funding nearly every mosque being built in the USA. Can you tell me Mr. Terrorist how many churches are being built in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Kuwait, Oman, and Bahrain? ZERO. Were you aware of that reality? No. I do desire justice in the form of sending home every muslim back to the middle east where islam reigns supreme and dissent is not tolerated. The mass murders occuring are conducted by your islamic friends and not anyone here in the west. How many muslims died recently at the hands of Christian attacks...ZERO, which equals your pathetic IQ.
3. Thanks for avoiding my questions regarding the author in hiding, you prove my point, again. Islam is based on hate, slavery, rape, and exploitation. Dissent will never be tolerated by your muslim friends. Have you looked at a muslim woman lately. A true picture of despair and servitude.
4. Go read the koran for yourself and see how much it pushes its followers to murder those who do not wish to convert. Are we not supposed to have CHOICE??? Christianity does not make threats, only warns people of what is to come in the afterlife for rejecting the Son of God.
5. Please put your little money by your BIG MOUTH and try living in a muslim country for several months and see if you still have the same high opinions. You are a hypocrite of immense dimensions.
Good day to you Christian murderer in the Land of Denial.

Colinh - heavywinter provided specifics but all you have done is call him names
After 9/11 which kind of concentrated the mind, I read the so called Holy Koran. Just as I had formerly read the Old Testament and the New Testament even though I'm not what you would call religious.

There are some troubling passages in the Old Testament, and even in the much milder New Testament, and there is no question that Christians and members of other faiths have done reprehensible things. But it is also clear that the core text of Christianity does not teach elimination of unbelievers.

But the Koran turned out to be a real eye opener. It's right up there with Mein Kampf for openly stating the program which is elimination of all unbelievers by whatever means are available. I could have it wrong, but my impression is that only a "bad" Muslim can in any way be a friend to a nonbeliever.

One big difference. Christianity was founded by a fellow who taught turn the other cheek. Islam was founded by a fellow who murdered and raped and pillaged over hundreds of miles - and he did it in the name of his god.

Hmmm call it a wild guess
Maybe it has to do with all those moderate Moslems denouncing the 9-11 attack; London, Madrid.

Ah the old racist bigot tactic
Sorry the phrase all Muslims may not be terrorists but most terrorists are Moslems have more than a garain of truth. I am quite willing to jump on the band wagon that bashes people who use beheading as a recreational sport and broadcast it as if it the world cup. Nor do I have any patience for those who call people bigoted or racist when they disagree with people who like to masacre kindergarden children or slit the throats of female flight attendants.

Having lived in the Middle East there is much to despise about a religion that tells its adherents that they can gain heaven by murdering some unbelievers. I also love Islams ability to give out temporary divorces so the good Muslim can avail himself of a quickie without soiling his beliefs. One has to respect a religion that encourages "honor" killing or my favorite, although lawyers hate it, is the quant process of revolving three times and announcing "I divorce you." to get rid of an unwanted spouse. And there is the tolerance of other religions, try having a Bible in some Moslem states. Yes it is a truly great religion, engaging in warfare along its entire frontier against every religion with which it comes into contact. I love the holy war that it wages against those warlike Thai's, a people noted for their hostility to religions and general intolerance.

As Churchill observed 100 years ago it is a cancer on humanity that keeps slavery ion effect and restrains progress (well we know not all progress). Nothing has changed. The West should practise the same love and tolerance that Moslems display daily.

Projecting again Collin
God we get to hear this PC racist BS and are supposed to cry for mercy. I think its rather clear who the racist is here. Try to stop the immitation of a monkey flinging feeces, its so gay.

Well Collin learned to in his madrassa
He learned to call everyone who isn't about to bow down to the Caliphate is a racist. Islam is a cancer on mankind and it is sowing the crop it will soon reap.

You can not talk sense into a fool.
I gave up on ColinH (or is it mohammed in disguise). I would like to see him spout this filth today in front of a large crowd of Canadians knowing now the long list of potential targets that were targeted for destruction. He can keep calling me a racist, and I will call out islam in its true face.

It amazes methat there are those that would defend such evil
You know Japanese Americans in WWII formed the 442nd Regimental Combat Team to prove their loyalty. What have American Moslems done to prove their loyalty? I've lived in the Middle East and their an intolerant lot. They are either on their knees or at your throat. I had orginally intended to learn Arabic but once I had my taste of the culture there I couldn't wait to get out.

What amazes me is how the Europeans seem to be cowed by these thugs.

Try to remember
that the most important thing in warfare is to know who your enemy is, and equally important, who is not.

Mr. Jackson I have an example of muslim loyalty to the USA....
Do you remember that US "marine" appm. a year and half back in Iraq who was kidnapped by rebels? Oops, I'm wrong, he FAKED HIS KIDNAPPING, LIED TO HIS COMMANDER, GAVE HIS WEAPONS TO THE LOCAL REBELS, DITCHED THE USA, FLEW TO BEIRUT, AND WE HEARD NOTHING OF HIM SINCE. I guess that is NOT an example of loyalty to the USA, but love of islam. You can dig it up in detail on CNN or Google.

Profiling
It seems that one of the easiest way to eliminate profiling is for members of any particular group to assist in eradicating the criminal element from the ranks. It is difficult to believe that if 6 of this terrorist group were regularly meeting at a mosque that other members that use that facility were not aware of their activity.

Profiling will stop when the radical members of a particular group are removed. The first step is self policing.

It appears so
I wonder if the part being left unsaid is that initial information came via Bush's wiretapping operation? Hmmm… an the liberals said that this kind of thing doesn't work.

Hit a nerve…
I have a couple of relatives who converted to Islam a few years back, so it is hard for me to hate all muslims. Still, I think you are showing a very distinct lack of understand for where your opponents in this discussion are coming from.

I have to side more with them on this one.

The Quaran (Koran?) is not the bible; especially the new testament. To look at them as remotely alike is a very one sided comparison.

I do agree with you on one point; religious fanatics of any stripe are a dangerous lot.

exactly! Very good post
This is one cord that should ring true to everyone in the world. Muslims need to speak out, in no uncertain terms, against the radical element within their ranks. Until that happens, the whole lot are guilty by association.

Inciting hatred and all-out war are Bin Laden's objectives.
This message is addressed to those on this blog who are advocating hatred of all Muslims. Not only is your approach unethical, it is incredibly stupid. You may as well be working for Bin Laden, because you are advancing his objectives. Why do you think there are car bombs killing civilians every day in Iraq? Why do you think the planes hit the World Trade Centre? Why do you think the London subways were bombed?

The objective of Al Qaeda is to foment all-out war. There are about one billion Christians and another billion Muslims on our planet - is it the objective of you hate-mongers to go until "last man standing"? Give your heads a shake. The only way to solve this problem, which may involve only a few thousand extremists, is to focus down and eliminate the terrorists; not to broaden this conflict as you are advocating.

Your hateful, incendiary comments can only serve to increase the problem of terrorism - maybe you should get Bin Laden t-shirts and ball caps to better reflect your true loyalties.

On profiling and self-policing.
I agree that Muslims owe it to themselves and the rest of us to self-police. I also have no problem with profiling, in fact anything other approach seems highly ineffective and negligent.

More importantly, I think the penalties against terrorists and their collaborators are far too soft - they should be stiffened up until a point of true deterrence is found.

It's a standard tactic
in any revolutionary movement that the radicals must first purge out all the moderates (i.e. the purging of the Girondins by the Jacobins in the French revolution). To win, Al Qaeda needs to polarize at least a large minority of muslim opinion to his (Wahabbi) way of thinking. Since most of the killing of muslims has been done by other muslims, the only way to deflect the disgust by moderates for his actions is to provoke America into killing large numbers of muslims for him.

Bigots in America serve Joseph Stalin's role of being "useful idiots".

No disagreement
with you on either of these points. The liberal position on profiling is just silly.

Thanks again for showing division among westerners....
Why you dont see any of this type of debate among muslims. Why did the muslims attack us in 2001? We were not in Afghanistan. We were not in Iraq. We were not pressuring Iran. So you and your buddy collinh can now march arm in arm to your nearest mosque and praise islam at the expense of the west. Where do you see muslims saying "Hey, not all westerners and Christians are bad. Its only a few bad apples. Lets stop this crazy jihad against the west" They dont care or talk like that because they are all in 1 unified voice. As somebody here said before, "The silence after 9-11 was truly defeaning" A few thousand extremists??? Try out 1.2 billion extremists. Muslims and YOU APOLOGISTS are the ones advocating racism and hatred against all non-muslims. You are talking as a traitor against your own citizens in the name of political correctness. Where did you learn your hatred of all that is western? Do you even read what you type Sir Mohammed? I am not advocating any last man mentality. We did not start this war BUT WE NEED TO WIN IT UNCONDITIONALLY SO MUSLIMS NEVER RAISE THIER HANDS AGAINST US AGAIN FOR NOT BELONGING TO THEIR RELIGION. If you dont believe this is about religion, you are lying to yourself. Please, please read the koran in its ENTIRETY and you may change your outlook.
I read roughly 2/3 and was repulsed.

If only our problem were a few thousand extremists
Al Quaeda is is a symptom rather than the problem.

The problem is that modernity is pressing in on Islam and there is a widespread fundamentalist reaction. So, underlying the few thousand extremists is a pool composed of perhaps as much as a majority of the Muslim population which approves of violence and inculcates its children to violence because Muhammed himself preached neverending violence against the unbeliever.

The problem is exacerbated by the fact that the governments of most majority muslim nations are kleptocracies which deserve overthrow and fundamentalist Islam is a natural rallying principle for resistance.

One thing is certain and easy for anyone who can read to ascertain for him or herself. Anyone who deeply believes in the teachings in the Koran is the enemy of every person on this planet who is not a Muslim. That's inconvenient in our era of assumed tolerance for all points of view, but there it is.

I fully understand that is why I am still alive.
Relatives or not, a muslim will always first be loyal to islam, family or no family. It is a strange fact that nobody is allowed to leave islam once in the "family." You do know that the penalty is death for renouncing islam as indicated weeks ago with the Afghan man who had to leave for Italy or his death would had been imminent. If it was my relative it would be safe to say that a relationship would no longer be possible. I understand the muslims and poor excuses for opponents very well. Please do not compare the Bible to the koran. The first beleives in salvation and life for all, while the other teaches death to all the non-believers. Careful, you fall into that category and if you were caught anywhere in the middle east your life would be at a quick end for the "crime" of being a non-believer.
Did I say anything wrong, false, or misleading? Dont let your nerve take the place of common sense and reality.

Not true with all sects, especially in the U.S.
But you are right for the most part. This is especially true of those who adhere to the middle eastern sects they were raised under.

Pauled... just always be very careful especially around you know who.
Keep your enemies close, and your friends closer, I think is the way it goes.

Somehow I don't think the US has ever faced an enemy like Islam
One wonders if there is a kind thing one can say about Islam or its adherents. Perhaps you might mention something.

Vinter, you are Bin Laden's useful idiot.
Vinter:

At a minimum, you are Bin Laden's useful idiot. You could even be an extremist provocateur of one stripe or another.

I have nothing left to say to you. If you want to help foment ignorant hatred and all-out war, then you are on Bin Laden's side, not mine.

You are the very first person to ever accuse me of political correctness - and probably also the last.

Do not attempt to make me into an apologist for the terrorists - that is a lie.

To combat terrorists, we have to focus, find them and eliminate them - not broaden the conflict to include over a billion other people, as you are advocating.

Don't try to paint me as some soft-headed peace activist either - there are times when you have to stand and fight, and this is one of them.

The correct strategy is to determine exactly who you are fighting, keep the odds in your favor, and win. If you get crazy and unnecessarily widen this conflict, our society will undoubtedly lose.

Allan

Thanks again for the kind remark you Stalinst *******.
I truly believe UBL would HARDLY find someone as myself useful to his cause as I am personally trying to outlaw his old, cult of hate and death. If you hit me or my nation "Woe unto him" Fight fire with fire is an old saying
I never wanted to be on your side, you are much to weak and feeble for my taste, I only support the cause to preserve and protect liberty and freedom of the west.
Dont think you are NOT PC as Europeans tend to live it now as a natural way of life. You dont even see it, it has become 2nd nature in your silky mentality.
Did you consider that the 9-11 attackers DID NOT CARE AT ALL about waging war against the USA, NATO, and the hundreds of millions of non-muslims? There are appm. 2/3 of this planets population who are not muslim and obviously they did not care about those numbers weighed against them so why should we care about 1.2 billion?
What you consider fighting in America we would call a very meek and lowly response, possibly even compromise. That is why England and other nations are dominated by islam today (and dont try to say otherwise. I daily watch 6-9 difft programs of what is happening to the old world) Did your people already surrender to just the cultural threat of islam? It seems that way.
Finally, in your typical European mentality, you always claim "We will lose or we have no chance of winning"
is exactly why you have the mess there is today on the continent. Dont always be soooooo scared to fight. If you keep broadcasting your reluctance and fears of war....you have ALREADY LOST. This is why America is so great and the current-permanent leader of the free world.
P.S. I will make sure my nation will not jump to Englands aid a 3rd time this century as you surrendered without ever having fought back. Save yourselves moron. You are truly pathetic. I am a provactor, NO, only a defender and a responder to a war of which you have no idea of the meaning. The more I see you Europeans write, wring your hands, and sweat, the more my disgust grows. Go throw a pound to your mosque and tell them "Cherio" for me or whatever you wieners say.

For once......I am at a loss and can think of nothing to say.
It is just a very tough question with NO answer. What does that say about islam and its cult followers?

Thank you too Vinter.
Vinter,

You are so damned angry that you stopped making sense a long time ago.

You are so mad that you want to fight everyone - do you use the phrase "kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out"?

Are you sure you're not with Bin Laden? Sounds a lot like him!

In contrast, I just want to eliminate the bad guys.

Ordinarily I'd let this go as a simple disagreement.

But now you have added the ultimate insult, and one I will not soon forget - don't EVER call me a European!

Allan

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