TCS Daily

The Renewal of the West

By Jerry Bowyer - June 28, 2006 12:00 AM

If 200 years from now America will be filled with people who know and love the ideas of Jefferson and Madison -- but these people are overwhelmingly dark skinned -- will this be good or bad?

That's the question I asked Pat Buchanan when I debated with him about the content of his book, The Death of the West. He said it would be 'a disaster and a tragedy'. What do you say?

Your answer is a pretty good indicator of whether you're a we-hold-these-truths-to-be-self-evident conservative or a blood-and-soil conservative. Let's use a technology analogy: the first kind believe that the software of liberty runs equally well on all hard technology platforms. The latter think that some platforms (whether for genetic or cultural reasons) are not easily adaptable to the liberty program.

A few years ago, I was studying the life of Charlemagne. His troops had been continually harassed by tribes who would attack, be defeated, surrender, make a treaty and violate the treaty as soon as Charlemagne's troops were out of sight. They did this over and over again. I was reminded of various Palestinian 'pledges' to abandon terrorism. I wondered whether groups like this could ever learn to honor their treaties and live according to the rule of law. Then I realized that the people who were harassing Charlemagne were my ancestors. If you are of Northern European stock, or British or Irish, and you are tempted to racial pride, I highly recommend that you study Romans like Tacitus or Caesar to get some idea how your ancestors looked to the civilized world 2000 years ago.

Clearly, there is a rage of anti-immigrant feeling in large swaths of my political party (Republican) at the moment. I don't think, however, that it's racism that drives it. It's nostalgia. Large numbers of conservatives seem to think that they have a constitutional right to have their country look the same in their old age as it did in their childhoods. The problem of course, is that the country of their childhoods, didn't look the same as the country of their parent's childhoods. America is a highly dynamic country. In fact, dynamism is the point of it, especially racial dynamism. When the first Congress commissioned that Adams, Franklin and Jefferson create a 'great seal' which would represent the ideals of our country, the (eventual) results included the Latin words "E Pluribus Unum", From many, One. From many what? From many races. How could Jefferson and Franklin (who worked together on the Declaration of Independence) see it any other way? When they 'declared' to the world that rights were self-evident, they staked everything on the notion that the software of liberty runs on all varieties of human hardware.

History proved them right. The group that they were most concerned about (more because of forced servitude than because of race), were Africans. But even that group eventually assimilated into American life. Despite waves of German immigrants, English remained our national language. Despite waves of Irish and Italian immigrants from the 1840's to the 1920's, which were proportionately far larger than our current immigration wave, America never really did become a vassal of the Pope.

Immigration doesn't represent the 'death of the West' it represents its renewal. People go from places that they don't like to places that they do like. This implies that they 'buy in' to what we're about to some degree. I would argue that immigrants tend to buy in to America more fervently than those of us who are born here. By definition someone who crosses oceans and valleys to get to something has proven already that he values it.

Such people are also, by nature, risk takers. We're the children of the people who left their homes (mostly in Europe) and started over. Present native Europeans are the children of those who thought it was better to stay put. Perhaps that partly explains the difference between America and Europe now; their risk aversion is hardwired, as is our risk tolerance.

Immigrants start businesses at significantly higher rates than the native born. Entrepreneurship is risky. It's difficult to imagine Silicon Valley occurring without immigrants from India. Immigrants have more children, which, of course, parents will recognize as the ultimate risk.

Do they change the culture? Of course, they do. Living cultures change, dead cultures don't. Cicero's Latin and Benedict XIV's Latin are pretty much identical. I can read both equally badly. Look at English from Beowulf (thoroughly unreadable to moderns) to Chaucer (mostly unreadable to moderns) to Shakepearre (pretty tough going) to Jefferson (not too bad) to Lincoln (kind of flowery) to Harry Potter. Honestly, I'm a huge English bull. It's the language of the Indian parliament. It's the language that every Chinese businessman is trying to learn, and it's the language of the internet. If you're looking for a language to be bearish about, I'd try French. Figure out a way to short-sell French futures and you'll make a fortune.

Jerry Bowyer is Economic Advisor for Independence Portfolio Partners.



"Clearly, there is a rage of anti-immigrant feeling in large swaths of my political party (Republican) at the moment."



Is it Genocide? So sick of the TCS rant on ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION
Its funny how when a bug disappears off the planet, the environmentalists are screaming about the loss of "biodiversity".

When entire populations are effectively being killed off through economic genocide and cultural suicide, thats ok.

Lets face it, TCS writers are shills for business interests interested in low wages that the rest of us pay for through taxpayer paid education, accomodation, medication and incarceration.

If you don't come LEGALLY, you don't have respect for the rule of law. Check out how many founding father scolars are in ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTs that cost us billions in the prison systems. Thats the future with unchecked immigration.

Which peoples are getting wiped out by economic genocide again? The Germans, not they're richer. The japs, not them either. The red indians, nope, they're getting rich from the casinos. The black ones, nope more getting into the middle class. Who again?
Anyway, I don't buy this authors argument. Years ago it was 'melting pot' nowadays it's 'multiculturalism'. And if an illegal has pretty much the same rights etc as a real american, why bother bocoming a citizen? Or if it really hits the fan somehow, will they fight for the place, or just abandon it?

We are all human
The impulse toward liberty and democracy is innate in every heart, regardless of that person's race or culture. When Admiral Dewey stepped on the shores of Luzon to meet with General Aguinaldo, he found the Filipino people solidly behind him in fighting for the islands' freedom from Spain.

Of course, we know how that went. They traded one overlord for another.

And when the Cherokee invented their own written language and studied ours, to read the ideas of the great thinkers of the Enlightenment, they sent a delegation to Washington to apply for the inclusion of a Cherokee state into the new Union.

We know how that one went too.

Everyone wants liberty and justice. The only problem is, historically these things only seem to be available to whoever is the top dog in a given century. Everyone else gets sloppy seconds from the plate.

Mis steps
"Of course, we know how that went. They traded one overlord for another."

The Philippines have been independent since 1946 and because of our botched attempts at empire, the common language in the Philippines is English. Which many have used to their advantage as guest workers around the world. Unfortunately, they retained the Spanish Dons. So, which was more benificial to the Philippines, 200 years of Spanish rule or 50 years of US rule?

And I dare say if illegal immigration is to be the norm, let's open the doors to the Philippines and India. They at least know how to speak English.

Superficial analysis. Author just doesn't get it.
Typical libertarian claptrap! Of course, it’s not race—it’s culture. We need to maintain reasonable legal immigration rates consistent with assimilation if we are to maintain our culture.

There’s much confusion about the universality of rights. I talk about it here:

Marjon is right - Americans want control of ILLEGAL immigration
I know the article is about the vitality of having immigrants come to America, but the author can not resist the STRAW MAN argument by claiming that the feeling in Republican (or all across America) is anti-immigrant instead of anti-illegal immigrant.

Some other observations on this article and the chart listing the Entrepreneurship rates in 2005
1) Are some groups subsets of others? It is what I am assuming, but it is confusing unless the info is spelled out. For example is the "Latino" category a subset of the "Immigrant" category or is the "Latino" category ONLY Latino US citizens? Or does the "Latino" category include 2nd, 3rd, generation US born people with one or more ancestors being Latino? Does the "immigrant" category include illegals as well as legal immigrants?

2) The author (I think) tries to make a comparison between German speaking immigrants 2-3 generations ago and the Spanish speaking illegal immigrants of today. I do not have figures, but I would bet dollars to doughnuts that the percentage of Spanish speaking (legal & illegal) immigrants of today to the total US population(of today) is much higher than the German speaking immigrants of the past.

3) Does anyone on TCS decry the melting pot and wish our culture to stagnate? Does anyone on TCS not welcome controlled legal immigration? If there are some, I imagine it is a very small percentage of the people of who want to get control of our illegal immigration problem

Superb article
The opening paragraphs were a stunning indictment of Pat Buchanan. Contra some of the commenters here, it's clear that the issue here is not the legal/illegal divide but immigration PER SE. Buchanan wants the country to stay ethnically constant, and he sees it as a "tragedy" if there were major demographic changes but American ideals remained strong. It's a fascinating nugget.

I used to hate Pat Buchanan, but nowadays I actually find him sort of useful. He's basically an apostate from the American Creed. And apostates sometimes help to clarify a position. America has never been a nation-state in the European sense, where birth and blood are the essence of nationality. It was something different: a people bound together by a Constitution and a shared experience of freedom. The ideal that "all men are created equal" reverberates through the centuries and gives Americans a sense of identity and a sense of purpose. Is such a country really a wise idea? It's a controversial proposition, and it's not totally crazy to dissent from it. While the idea of a "secure border," across which all entry is prevented by force, is an aspiration peculiar to the modern era with its super-powerful states (even Hadrian's Wall and the Chinese Wall were intended to prevent armed incursions, not peaceful migrants), Pat Buchanan's pre-American notion that loyalty is associated with blood and soil does have a long pedigree. He wants to re-invent America in the mould of a European nation-state, where identity is hereditary rather than a result of personal choices.

By rebelling against the American Creed, Buchanan helps those of us who believe in it to understand it better, articulate it better. To be an American at heart, to believe in America, is a constant struggle against racism, against exclusionism, against the impulse to judge people by the color of their skin or their accent or their place of birth, rather than by what they do and believe, in short, against the Pat Buchanan within each of us.

(Jerry Bowyer, if you're reading these comments, don't worry, it's no reflection on your writing. These commenters are always hanging out here and sneering at immigration columns.)

Dishonest Nathan
(Jerry Bowyer, if you're reading these comments, don't worry, it's no reflection on your writing. These commenters are always hanging out here and sneering at immigration columns.)

We don't "sneer" at "immigration columns", but address the ones that support unlimited imnmigration and the implicit/explicit acceptance of ILLEGAL entry.

By the way, anybody who reads TCS knows you are Nathan the TCS author, not a disinterested reader. You should disclose your affiliation.

When Clinton/Gore rushed many legal immigrants, mostly Spanish speaking, through the naturalization process, how many really appreciate what the US Constituion means?

How many native born understand what the Constitution means, for that matter.

The common heritage all Americans must understand is liberty supported by the rule of law.

Why is Buchanan associated with Republicans?

Last I heard he left the party, or the party left him.

Why not address what Tom Tancredo has been saying for years?

The Renewal of the West - by Third-World immigrants?
Why wait 200 years? Let's air-drop copies of Jefferson's and Madison's works in Haiti and Zimbabwe and watch Western standards of liberty magically blossom.

Why U.S. citizens afraid of illegal immigrant?
Illegal immigrant is part and parcel of goblazation and morden technology.Now no one can stop them ,we must accept the reality. You want cheap labour, poor people are ready to work on tiny pay.Why U.S.hiring Indian people for outsourching and call centre, because they are very cheap. You are allowing illegal immigrant for your selishness, so blame nobody.After all white people must not be sorry for this fact after all you white people are robbers you occupeded the country of REDINDIAN with cheating them.
Illegal immigrant atleast not cheating or murdering you.

Bad Assumptions and Slant
The author screws up on several points:

1. "If 200 years from now America will be filled with people who know and love the ideas of Jefferson and Madison -- but these people are overwhelmingly dark skinned -- will this be good or bad?"

Who says these immigrants know anything about the ideas of Madison and Jefferson? Hell, they aren't really taught in American schools. It's not their heritage and even 200 years from now it is a stretch. This means a voluntary effort to read these ideas --- not likely.

2. "Clearly, there is a rage of anti-immigrant feeling in large swaths of my political party (Republican) at the moment."

True, there is anti-immigrant opinion in the Republican party --- BUT --- for the vast majority, it is anti-ILLEGAL "immigrant." There's NOTHING wrong with that.

3. "I would argue that immigrants tend to buy in to America more fervently than those of us who are born here. By definition someone who crosses oceans and valleys to get to something has proven already that he values it."

Today, this is largely bullshit. While 50 - 100 years ago immigrants still flocked in neighborhoods that were filled with people predominantly of their own origin, they worked their asses off to become AMERICANS. Today's immigrants do not. The percentage holding Green Cards versus obtaining citizenship and remaining in that status is MUCH higher than it was when my grandparents came over from Poland --- and THEY couldn't wait to become true AMERICANS --- language, history, culture and all. Today immigrants --- especially ILLEGALS (particularly from Mexico) do not have this attitude.'

4. "Immigrants start businesses at significantly higher rates than the native born. Entrepreneurship is risky. It's difficult to imagine Silicon Valley occurring without immigrants from India. Immigrants have more children, which, of course, parents will recognize as the ultimate risk."

It's idiotic to equate entrepreneurship with Americanism. Given the opportunity in their own countries, these people would have been entrpreneurs there. Moreover, business starts is a poor way of measuring entrepreneurship and even poorer when you use percentages. How about absolute numbers? This is another case of statistics don't lie but liars use statistics.

5. "It's the language of the Indian parliament. It's the language that every Chinese businessman is trying to learn, and it's the language of the internet. If you're looking for a language to be bearish about, I'd try French. Figure out a way to short-sell French futures and you'll make a fortune."

More twisting of the truth --- English is the language of the Indian parliament because the English colonized India --- not because the Indians wanted to become British. As when the French (Normans) invaded England, Fench became the official language of the Isles. (Ever hear the term lingua France?) When the Russian invaded Poland in the 19th century, Russian supplanted Polish as the official language. And even Hitler tried to make German the official language of Poland, but wasn't around long enough to do much about it.

As for the Chinese --- bad example. They will speak Chinese to other Chinese and socialize with them in a room of Americans faster than they will convert to English. It's even worse with Mexicans --- who still think California is part of Mexico.

I know stacks of Russian immigrants --- LEGAL immigrants --- some of whom speak Eglish well. Even they, when faced with another Russian in a group of Americans will flock to other Russian and speak in Russian. I once had a party and literally put a sign on the door: "THIS IS AN ENGLISH-ONLY PARTY" --- because it is rude, even boorish, to speak a language unknown to others in their presence.

No, there is no great rush to learn English, American history, Anerican culture among today's immigrants. True, there are some who do --- but my eperience, which is significant says otherwise.

The French are just arrogant assholes who think they're still a major world power. Unfortunately, we encourgaed that attitude in WWII.

And we won't even go into Muslim immigrants who deny anyone's culture but their own.

Total denial by the open borders lobby and Republican leadership
You wrote "Clearly, there is a rage of anti-immigrant feeling in large swaths of my political party (Republican) at the moment."

I'm one of those lifelong Republicans who will be voting against every politician who fails to back control of our borders this fall.

Contrary to being "anti-immigrant" what I am is anti open borders. I think we should legally admit a significant number of immigrants every year but I think we should do so under rules. The leaders of my party have been dodging the issue of enforcing the rules for 20 years - so they are driving me to an extreme position that mirrors their own.

I think Pat Buchanan is a horses ass, but if forced to choose between Buchanan and continued failure to control our borders I have to choose Buchanan, or whever else on the ballot credibly promises to control the borders and enforce the law.

The Republican leadership is in denial. The most egregious aspect of that denial is the continued attempt to paint those us who want border control as racists. I'm not sure what the leadership hopes to gain by this, but I doubt it will gain votes.

Illegal immigrant atleast not cheating or murdering you
Yes, they are, everyday.

Taking resources from citizens, driving without license, insurance, commiting murder, theft,....

If the media would state the nationality and immigration status of everyone arrested for crimes, the hue and cry to deport illegal aliens would be deafening.

I would urge you to listen to Howie Carr on the internet after 5:15 pm EDT and listen to the list of illegal alien crimes commited just in New England on a daily basis.

Illegal immigrant atleast not cheating or murdering you
Hey Ramesh, you must have your eyes closed. It is estimated that something 20% of the U.S. Federal Prison population is comprised of illegal immigrants.

I'm tired of paying to educate, incarcerate, medicate and accomodate illegals.

Unless you are a citizen, don't start your sentences with "we".

If I had my way, part of the test of citizenship would to be functionally literate in English, which in all candor, is not something you demonstrate here.

I'm not afraid of illegal immigrants- I want them out, not sucking down my tax dollars and depressing my wages.

Software and Operating Systems
I am of the first persuasion. I can sympathize with the second, but being of the first, I cannot let that affect my final judgement.

A potential problem is that Liberty is software that runs differently on different operating systems (Cultures).

Since American culture seems to be moving further and further toward the entitlement culture, I'm not so sure Liberty will continue to run on it as well as it did in the past on a more self-reliant, "ask not what your country can do for you" kind of country.

It seems likely to me that people who come here expecting entitlements without even being legal citizens are going to expect even more entitlements when they become citizens. American citizenship is not a right granted to every person in the world who manages to make it to our border any more than French citizenship is a right to anyone who makes it into France.

I fear enough for Liberty without the huge influx of people who apparently feel they have a right to flout our laws and then demand rights and entitlements. When you demand things of me, it infringes on my Liberty.

Hey, of those entrepreneur immigrants, how many of them are here legally? The overwhelming majority, I would bet. I'm fine with that.

Americans are not against immigration, and I don't think Republicans are, as a subset, either. It's the illegal part we object to. Follow the rules.

Thanks for Being Honest
Now you're beginning to see what motivaties some so-called "Conservatives." They're VERY WORRIED that the White Anglo-Saxon Protestant majority is disappearing, because only WASPS can be trusted to run the government.

America's Vanishing Protestant Majority--What Does it Mean?
Albert Mohler, August 9, 2004

...According to the National Opinion Research Center [NORC] study, Americans identifying themselves as "Protestant" fell from 63% to 52% between 1993 and 2002 -- A MASSIVE DECLINE IS LESS THAN ONE DECADE. According to the University of Chicago press release, the percentage of Americans identifying themselves as Protestant "has been falling and will likely fall below 50% by mid-decade and may be there already."

...The report offers interesting points of analysis, including the fundamental failure of most Protestant denominations to evangelize and assimilate their own youth and young adults, and the fact that the nation's IMMIGRANT GROUPS HAVE NOT FOLLOWED the older pattern of eventual IDENTIFICATION WITH THE NATION'S PROTESTANT MAJORTIY.

...Several years ago, sociologists Dean R. Hoge, Benton Johnson, and Donald A. Luidens described the result of this process as "LAY LIBERALISM" that constitutes the belief system held by Protestant baby boomers. This "lay liberalism" rejects orthodox Christian doctrines such as belief that faith in Christ is necessary for salvation, and renegotiates Christian moral principles in line with permissive sexuality.

Racism drives articles like this
The author let his mask drop when he indicated that racism drives opposition to immigration. He cleverly masks this plea for open borders and ignores what is stake here is the rule of law by projecting his own prejudices and using the most outlandish examples.

Proud to be English, well they were barbarians. Perhaps they were over 2,000 years ago, but it was the British Empire that ended slavery in most of the world, gave the world the rule of law, and did far more than most nations can ever hope to in establishing civilization in the last three centuries. So let's ignore the relevant and use an example that is clueless.

Or perhaps not. By allowing Mexicans to enter unimpediated aren't we allowing people who practised cannibalism and human sacrifice to set up within our borders?

Ridiculous? No more so than the evidence or arguments this pathic drivel conveys.

The bottom line is there is no labor shortage as evidenced by the lack of wage growth in the past three decades. What we are seeing is simply a mechanism to insure that the middle class is wiped out and a new peon class created.

Obey, obey, obey
TCS wants you to obey, obey, obey.

Immigration good, those who oppose it are bad.


Multiculturism run rampant
If law breakers see they can get ahead by doing what they want why obey the law. For that matter when citizens see their law makers refusing to enforce the law why should they obey these laws.

Each day in the US we see one set of laws for the rch and powerful and another for the peons. I say enough.

That's the problem with Hindus
They stole and murder the Moslems and stole their land and now tell us we have no right to our country. Odd how the Indians stole Goa, waged war on China and export their population either legally or illegally to the point that London is now Londistan.

Give Roy a chance to be commissar
He so wishes to do to you what Jackson did to the Cherokees.

Racists R US Hampton
Projecting again Hampton? Its clear who the racists are and who uses the race card when they have no evidence nor logic to support an agenda opposed by the overwheming majority of the public.

There is no group more prejudiced in the US today, more intolerant than the Left and its spokesman.

E Plurbus Unum was about race????
E Pluribus Unum", From many, One. From many what? From many races. How could Jefferson and Franklin (who worked together on the Declaration of Independence) see it any other way?

Uhhhh... no. From many states, one. The United States of America. Not the United Races of America.

In order to be truly colorblind, we're really going to have to move past this persistent focus on race.

Like the commenter up several comments ago said, they're not even teaching Madison & Jefferson and what the founding principals actually were anymore. Which unfortunately shows through in some of the assumptions of this article.
- philmon

you left something out
"Lets face it, TCS writers are shills for business interests interested in low wages that the rest of us pay for through taxpayer paid education, accomodation, medication and incarceration."

Remember that wages are determined by the market and that the more competition there is for particular jobs the wages tend to fall. The other side of the coin which many, including you, fail to appreciate is that this results in CHEAPER goods and services for all of us. Moreover, it is the politicans---panderering plunderers---that inflict the costs of being our brothers keepers upon all of us. Keep the blame where it belongs---not on cheap labor but on politicians who love to spend other people's income to further their careers.

A Racist Storm
Intelligence Report, Spring 2006

Last August, the South Carolina Broadcasters Association named local Carolina Fox reporter Tami Birckner "South Carolina Reporter of the Year." Three months later, Birckner won the gushing accolades of neo-***** and Ku Klux Klansmen with a puff piece on the racist Web site Stormfront, which aired on Fox Carolina Channel 21 Nov. 9...

...In her story, Birckner called Stormfront, "a safe forum for people to use without fear of retaliation." The week after the story aired, Birckner apparently began using the forum herself as Kelso welcomed "our newest Stormfront member, FOXSC." Responding to an outpouring of gratitude and "Thank you Tami Birckner" messages from neo-*****, Klansmen and other white supremacists, FOXSC posted this message: "I am the FOX Carolina reporter who reported this story. I hope this can show those of you who have little faith in the media that there are journalists who take pride in being factual and unbiased."

Fox Carolina station managers apparently didn't see it the same way once criticism started to pour in. They quickly scrubbed Birckner's story from the station's Web site after bloggers spread it around the Web as evidence of Fox News' racist leanings...

Nice comment
Great analysis of both sides of the immigration issue. But the spin that immigration (unlimited) is good for us is so much bunk. If labor shortages drive wages we have seen three decades of slow to no wage growth while immigration levels are now higher than they were in the heyday of the great immigrant waves.

If nothing is done about illegals we can count on further taxes that will be paiud for by the middle class.

Cross-platform = good, Viruses = bad
I am the second kind. I believe that the software of freedom is cross-platform compatible. However, illegal criminal aliens are akin to software viruses. Unwanted, harmful, damaging creatures who should be immediately quarantined and removed by the antivirus known as ICE, and, better yet, kept out by the firewall of, well, a wall!

Keep the diverse hardware of legal immigration. Eliminate the scourge of illegal alien viruses!

P.S. Buchanan is an isolationist moron. If you want a coherent voice on the issue, listen to Ann Coulter.

Excellent proof of how the MSM is trying to paint opposition as racist Hampton
The Goebbels machinery of the elites is working full power in their demented way to paint those who oppose their agenda as racists. Since the vast majority of Americans oppose open borders eexactly what does this type of reporting prove?

That the MSM and its political allies is willing to impose its agenda at any cost. Just as we have seen them do Dan Rather imitations when it suits them we see it here as Hampton does another of his Goebbel channeling events.

Misses the Point
The issue here is not immigration per se, it is uncontrolled immigration. Why? Because uncontrolled immigration does not allow for assimilation and without assimilation one does not benefit from the immigration. Instead the immigration balkanizes the country.

Immigration must be controlled so that assimilation has a chance to work. Immigrants must meets certain conditions so that assimilation is possible.

That is the point.

How can you defend the Storm?
The Evolution of White Hate
Stratfor, November 19, 2004

...AMONG THE OLDEST OF THE WHITE SUPREMACIST WEB SITES IS STORMFRONT.ORG, which claims to have nearly 38,000 members. It is not unusual to visit the site and find more than 700 people on it at one time. Stormfront and other sites like it offer news from a white supremacist perspective, tips on weapons and self-defense, advice on activism and even an Aryan dating chat room.

This online community offers a much larger exchange of ideas than a five- or six-person local NA unit ever could. Other popular white hate Web pages include the NA's and the Missouri-based Vanguard News Network. The Nationalvanguard site is a slick and polished information portal run by NA member Kevin Strom. It is one facet of the NA that even the group's critics agree is well-run, and likely will survive even if the group does not...

...In this "leaderless resistance" concept, FORMER KLANSMAN LOUIS BEAM appears to have been one of the first to envision the impact that the Internet would have on the white supremacist movement. That potential began to be realized when STORMFRONT WAS LAUNCHED IN 1995, and is even more evident in the thousands of sites on the Web today...

Pat Buchanan moronic?
Here's what Pat suggested the other day:

The crucial steps are these. Build a fence along the 2,000-mile border to stop the flood. End welfare benefits to illegal aliens, except emergency medical treatment. Vigorously prosecute employers who hire illegals. Cease granting automatic citizenship to "anchor babies" of illegals who sneak across the border to have them. Take care of mother and child, then put them on a bus back home.

Turn off the magnets, and the illegals will not come. Cut off the benefits, and they will not stay. In five years, the crisis will be over.

What's moronic about this?

It Can Happen Here
Loss of religious liberty 'can happen here' Shurden says
Associated Baptist Press, June 27, 2006

...With the caveat that he does not believe any kind of Nazi-like totalitarian regime is imminent in the United States, BAPTIST HISTORIAN historian Walter Shurden nonetheless warned that Americans in general and Baptists in particular should not grow complacent about their freedom.

"I am suggesting ... that there are American Christians for whom the adjective is more important than the noun," he said. "I am suggesting that some Christian churches in our country have become political temples and that SOME CLERGY HAVE EMBRACED WILLINGLY THE TITLE OF 'PATRIOT PASTORS.' I am suggesting that theocrats have an eye on the machinery of the national and state governments, and they make no apology for it"...

"It can happen here because of Generation Joshua," he said. The name denotes "an effort by Michael Farris -- founder of Patrick Henry College -- to turn a generation of home-school students into foot soldiers to gain political power in order to subsume everything ... UNDER THEIR RIGHT-WING INTERPRETATION OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH," Shurden said. The school, in Purcellville, Va., was founded to teach the children of home-schooled, conservative evangelical Christians and raise them to become involved in public policy while advocating a "Christian worldview."

Shurden also noted that "by 2004 -- two years ago -- 42 of the 100 senators of the United States were given a scorecard of 100% by the Christian Coalition," he said.
It can happen here because there are religious ideologues rampant in our country, and they mean business. They are sincere."

..."It can happen here, because Baptists, of all God's people, have LOST OUR WAY ON SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE he said. "And that, my friends, is why the Baptist Joint Committee (BJC) for Religious Liberty is so essential to our life today." After his speech, BJC Executive Director Brent Walker presented Shurden the organization’s J.M. Dawson Religious Liberty Award.

my comments related only to immigrants that get here by playing by the rules.

My personal wish would be for all property to be privately held with all governemts limited to very small pieces--ala the Constitution. With property rights fully respected and protected by government (its real job) then immigrants could come here only by invitation to enter private property--they would be here as guests only with NO entitlements or rights of citizenship; those coming across by trespassing would be arrested and sent back at the owner's request. The alternative for them would be to apply for citizenship and once granted they would need to have the consent from some property owner---a place to rent or purchase, a job etc. Libertarian pipe dream, but I like it nevertheless.

Limited government
Unfortunately the old founders constitution died with the civil war when the Federal government became invlved in infrastructure backing of private interests. One this started the pork barrel was open to all.

I don't mind immigration but I'd like to see it regulated carefully. We all ready take half of the world's legal immigrants, not counting all the family related immigrants (once for example my wife became a citizen her whole clan became eligible for immigration and aren't under the same sort of quotas although they still would have to wait for years). I would like to see new citizens limited to 50% vital professions with the remainder granted on a per centage of qualifications (ability to work in a western society; tolerance; flexibility; support network within the US) basis with priority given to English speakers.

Right now the government is giving away about 100,000 lottery places which means that the government has no knowledge of the skills nor criminal records of whom they admitt. Believe me criminal records submitted are a complete farce and some nations have developed a truly wonderful cottage industry in false documents like Korea and the Phillippines.

The invitation aspect sounds interest but I fear that it would develop a cottage industry of coyotes. Somehow I can imagine less than honest individuals inviting the population of Nigeria to work here. By the way there is one group of immigrants I am unalterly opposed to and that is Nigerians who even in the US are notorious for their criminal activities.

Hampton shows us more anti-Christian bigotry
Apparently its okay to be a Christian if you think like Hampton otherwise Christians are *****.

Another example of the Left's twisted tolerance. And the Left denies they are waging war against Christians.

My ancestors arrived about 100 years before the Declaration of Independence
My ancestors arrived about 100 years before the Declaration of Independence, but I'd rather see this country full of people from Asia, Africa, Latin America, Polynesia or whereever that truely support the Constitution than full of people who look like me but believe the lie that "the Constitution is a living document".

If "the Constitution is a living document" that can be changed by judicial rulings rather than the amendment process, then it is not worth the paper it is printed on.

How can you pretend you aren't using a strawman argument
We all saw the WWPP, MoveOn and other Communist groups organize the pro immigration demonstrations that featured Che posters and Mexican flags. Who has ever seen the Strom people organize any anti immigration demonstratioon or seen anyone embrace them.

This is just another example of Hampton spin. He accuses those against illegal immigration of racism by using the Nazi position as an evidence? Anyone attempting to do so only demonstrates the depths of hius bankruptcy and the desperation he feels in attempting to promote his cause.

Its quite clear who the racists are here and who is playing the race card.

Only moronic to Leftists
Its prudent; sound; and reasonable. No wonder the Left has to play the race card all the time. They have nothing to offer nor can they hope to justify their agenda.

Open borders are a Utopian fantasy. And stop with the racist labeling
This article is quite a catalog of libertarian nonsense.

It ignores the fact that people will be attracted to "hot" economies for MANY reasons, including bad ones like "I want to have free health care, I want my babies to have benefits of citizenship, I want, I want I want."

Advocates of the Utopian fantasy of a borderless world don't seem to realize that borders are, overall, GOOD things. Once this nation loses control of its borders (uh, "now," I suppose) then it's not a nation, it's a Grab Bag for whoever wants to come in - largely unskilled laborers who will form a vast underclass that will need to be supported and will be exploited by the Corporate Elites.

We need to go back to the idea of letting in only the BEST and highly qualified immigrants from ALL nations.

As for the racist argument, others here have got it right: a vast majority want LEGAL, regulated citizenship, not an uncontrolled flood. What's wrong with you people who want to swamp the nation with people who can't, and won't, contribute?

And Libertarians need to get OUT of my party, the GOP, and start selling this nonsense under their own label.

Renewal of the West
There is no rage of anti-immigrant feeling in the republcan party. It is just that most of us are honest, not necessarily those elected as we find out later rather than sooner, are for controlled legal immigration not illegal immigrantion. It isn't nostaligia and no we don't think we have a constitutional right to have our country look the same in our old age as it did in our childhoods. Good Lord, we have seen it change right before our eyes and we haven't been too much anti-change. In fact, as Martha would say, "it's a good thing."

If the illegal aliens, or any aliens, want the Jeferson and Franklin republic, then let them come here legally. Let them apply for the proper documents and wait their turn. No coming across the border to bear a child, no sneaking across like a dirty dog for a job with fraudulent or stolen documents, no amnesty.

Living Constitution means no constitution
Very nice comment. I'd prefer to know what my rights and obligations are, as well as those of the government at any given time rather than have to consult the oracles in nine black robes.

Illiteracy is the problem
Perhaps the biggest reason we need immigrants is to raise our country's literacy rate. Perhaps the biggest reason Republicans need to take the small-l libertarian view on immigration is to raise our party's literacy rate. No, confused reader, I am being totally serious. Let's look at a quote from the original article:

"Clearly, there is a rage of anti-immigrant feeling in large swaths of my political party (Republican) at the moment. I don't think, however, that it's racism that drives it. It's nostalgia."

The author is being quite charitable to those who might disagree with him in acknowledging that opposition to immigration IS NOT rooted in rascism. And again, like other TCS articles that are pro-immigration, this article does not address "illegal" immigration.

But you'd think from the comments above that the author called immigration opponents rascist and went on and on about illegal immigration. Thus proving my point. Immigration, legal and illegal, can do nothing but improve the literacy rate of the Republican Party and of our country. It certainly couldn't hurt it.

OK, let me boil it down for the kunckledraggers who love these comment threads... These articles are actually really funny. They are funny because of the reaction they get. You people who get all bent out of shape here are being laughed at. And guess what? You will be laughed at and toyed with so long as it gets a reaction, because it is funny every time. In fact, it gets funnier each subsequent time. The poking gets more and more subtle and backhanded, and your reaction gets more and more blunt, confirming what all of us already know.

Oh, and did everyone see Pat Buchanan dress up in drag again so he could appear on the Daily Show last week. It was classic. I love when he pulls out his "Bay" character. He's playing you all for fools too, you know...

Who's the aggressor animal now?
This reminds me of the old line about how Liberals think Conservatives are evil and Conservatives think Liberals are stupid. So it is interesting to try to sort out who are the Liberals and who the Conservatives are in this debate.

Clearly, Nathan thinks the rest of you are stupid. I pretty much concur:

"(Jerry Bowyer, if you're reading these comments, don't worry, it's no reflection on your writing. These commenters are always hanging out here and sneering at immigration columns.)"

And just as clearly, the rest of you think Nathan is evil:

"Dishonest Nathan"

This is convincing evidence that Nathan and the pro-immigration folks (of which I count myself among) are smarter and know they are smarter. This makes us the Conservatives. The rest of you can only resort to personal attacks and name calling (due primarily to your limited mental capacities) which makes you the Liberals.

Now that we have this settled, let's argue about whether Rush Limbaugh would have to crawl to get from place to place if he didn't take Viagra. You anti-immigrationists may need to think about that one for a few minutes.

Bosco needs serious help
Seek help now. One wonders where you would crawl without your lithium.

Bosco the clown does his act
Must admit when you do your fool act out in public like this one does have to surpress the urge to roll about the floor laughing hysterically at what purports to be a serious comment. You really need to address your short commings. Exposing yourself so only reveals your inadequacies in education, life success, and self esteem.

But you do make us laugh. So bray on, by the way how many Bosco type clowns can you fit in one of those vans the illegals annointed use to grace us with their presence?

Bowyer's View of the Illegal Immigration Issue
First, I think Pat Buchanon is a whacko.
Second, Bowyer's article states that for the most part Republicans are not concerned with the racist view of the illegal immigration and then turns to the ethnic side of the situation.
In other words, just like the Sociocrats, they turn to hitting on the emotional aspect of it instead of logic and reality.
Time and again, it has been pointed out and proved that the illegal immigration has a dark underlying feature with the Mexican government and the Mexican drug cartels backing the amnesty issue. And the American government? They created the problem by not enforcing laws that have been designed to capture and deport illegal immigrants and fine the employers in order to pay for the cost of deportation and border security operations. This issue has nothing to do with our legal immigration policy, other than the fact that the paperwork should be less complicated as long as the underlying feature is with national security in mind (background checks, etc.)and that anyone who wishes to be a naturalized citizen, speak/write/read English and know American history and traditions, as well as understand constitutional law - something that our elected officials in Washington fail to comprehend and who are Americans born here.
This is the simplest view of the situation, instead of Bowyer's complicated ethnic/descendent revelation. Buchanon does not and should not represent the Christian community. And the issue is illegal immigration, not Christianity (other commentators).

You fail to grasp something.
I don't care who instituted the welfare state-the fact is thanks to brainwashed idiots RHampton, LiberalGoodman & Gulliver and some "enlightened self-interest" on the part of certain industries and politicians eager to have a well controlled electorate-its here to stay in some form or another.

There's nothing "cheap" or "cheaper" about allowing businesses to transfer costs to the taxpayer. Of course the average illegal is going to be thrilled with 8 bucks an hour if he's getting food stamps and knows the local ER MUST serve him up. This doesn't even begin to address the issues brought about by those who were thugs in their own country and come here to continue their nefarious ways.

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