TCS Daily


Trust, But No Way to Verify?

By Glenn Harlan Reynolds - October 31, 2006 12:00 AM

Well, this report from The New York Times doesn't make me feel better about electronic voting:

The federal government is investigating the takeover last year of a leading American manufacturer of electronic voting systems by a small software company that has been linked to the leftist Venezuelan government of President Hugo Chávez.

The inquiry is focusing on the Venezuelan owners of the software company, the Smartmatic Corporation, and is trying to determine whether the government in Caracas has any control or influence over the firm's operations, government officials and others familiar with the investigation said.

Is this a false alarm, or does it represent a real threat of foreign meddling in American elections? I suspect it's the former, but I can't be sure -- and, of course, that's the problem with electronic voting. Because you can't tell what's going on inside of the box, voters can't be sure that their votes are recorded, or counted, accurately. And if they can't be sure of that, their faith in the whole electoral system is in danger -- and with it, their faith in our system of government.

We've already seen some worry on the part of Democrats that concern with electoral fraud may cause black voters to turn out in lower numbers -- ironic, given that most of the talk of vote-fraud has come from, well, Democrats -- but although some commentators have enjoyed the irony ("Tell the base their votes won't be counted, then wonder why they won't vote - I will never be smart enough to be a Dem strategist"), the problem of voter distrust is a real one.

I've written about this problem before -- and more than once -- but the issue of trustworthiness in voting and vote-counting is really important, and I still think that it's not getting enough attention.

The system must not merely be fair and reliable, it must be seen as fair and reliable by all reasonable people. Kooks and conspiracists will always be, well, kooky and conspiratorial. But the system needs to be trustworthy enough, and obviously so, that only the kooks and conspiracists, who are beyond reason, will seriously worry about its trustworthiness.

We certainly don't have that kind of a system now. The mechanisms for making sure that voters are who they say they are are way too weak -- as this St. Louis scandal involving a "grassroots" group called ACORN demonstrates, and as this study of dead people voting in New York indicates -- and the mechanisms for ensuring that vote recording and counting are trustworthy and trusted are obviously too weak as well.

Both processes need reform. Photo ID for voting seems entirely reasonable to me. And I think that we need far more transparency -- both on the large scale, and at the level of individual voters -- with regard to ballot technologies, too.

Trust in the government has been declining for years, but it's nothing compared to what we'll see if a majority, or even a sizable plurality, of Americans conclude that the entire process is rigged. And I think we're closer to that point than the political class realizes. That's something I looked into further in a podcast interview with Wall Street Journal writer John Fund, author of Stealing Elections: How Voter Fraud Threatens Our Democracy. The audio, and a transcript, are available here. I hope that a lot of people read Fund's book, or at least listen to the interview. This topic isn't getting enough attention, and I'm afraid it will do damage before it does.

The author is a TCS Daily Contributing Editor and founder of Instapundit.

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128 Comments

Fortunately, we're still supposed to have our old dependable machines...
...the large green metal voting booths with the levers. I haven't heard of any problems with them.

But if they had switched over to electronic voting, I would have gotten my hands on an absentee ballot.

Creative Voting
I've been trying for years to figure out how to vote like a Chicago Democrat - early and often, dead or alive - so far with no success. Now, the electronic machines have changed the whole challenge. Too late for me to become a "computer geek".

I agree with the need for picture ID, but drivers licenses for illegal aliens cannot be the ID, for obvious reasons.

My Dad is one of the "dead" voters
That NY State Dead voter story is kind of intereasting to me. The compared voters to the Social Security Admin Master Death List.

Dad has been on that list for 22 years now - ever try and get OFF the list. EVERY year at tax time, in order to get their refund, Dad has to go down to the local Social Security Office, with TONS of paperwork, and get them to correct the list - they do, and he gets his refund. Sometime in the few weeks after that, some computer system somewhere resets him to dead (Last I checked - around 9:30 last night, he was very much alive)

It's the opposite of a zombie problem - aka not a dead person who won't die, but a live person who won't be listed as alive

voter suppression
In Florida 2000, the brother of the candidate arranged for thousands of legitimate voters to be removed from the voting rolls "by accident" (they were looking for felons and found lots of black non-felons too). Ohio 2004, Democratic districts have shortages of voting machines, but Republican districts have a surplus. Diebold voting machines can be hacked, and leave no paper record -- Diebold an active Republican. Virginia 2006, the Democratic candidate for Senate has only his first name and nickname on some ballots because "Webb" is too long to fit. Somehow "Allen" fits just fine.

Now, in order to pretect voters against fraud, are we suggesting that non-partisan civil servants run elections? Are we suggesting that voting machines produce a paper record? Nooooo. We're suggesting that everyone who wants to vote must get a picture ID which many otherwise would not need, a suggestion that seems calculated to cull more poor people than rich.

Tit for Tat
It could be very successfully argued that Democrat machines around the country have perfected the art of voter fraud.
Chicago is infamous, but Seattle was in the news last gov. election and Daschle in SD had many extra Indian votes.
It is pretty obvious to me that those who cry the loudest about voter disenfranchisment are those who can only win by fraud.

The Dems should know...
>"In Florida 2000, the brother of the candidate arranged for thousands of legitimate voters to be removed from the voting rolls "by accident" (they were looking for felons and found lots of black non-felons too)."

Not even Jesse Jackson engages in this stupidity any more. Confirm the name one black person who has come forward with evidence of not being allowed to vote. With such massive suppression of the black vote it should not be difficult. You are repeating a myth and you know it.

>"Ohio 2004, Democratic districts have shortages of voting machines, but Republican districts have a surplus."

Does it matter to you that the local, and Democratic, leadership of those districts should have taken care of that issue? Just another case of Democrats blaming an inept government when they ARE the government.

>"Diebold voting machines can be hacked, and leave no paper record -- Diebold an active Republican."

Ahhh, the Diebold conspiracy. No proof of an actual crime but the possibilities have you all a flutter.

>"We're suggesting that everyone who wants to vote must get a picture ID which many otherwise would not need, a suggestion that seems calculated to cull more poor people than rich."

Oh yes, because only the rich possess the ability to get a drivers license. Please, put the class warfare away and join the adult world. What is so difficult to understand about actually proving you are who you say you are. You have to do it to get on a plane, buy liquor, and drive a car but asking for it in order to choose the leaders of this country is way outside the line! It is The Man attempting to keep us down!

Why if we had to provide ID to vote, the Democrats couldn't engage in these activities:

- Sending people unsolicited absentee ballots in Iowa.
- County officials in Arizona helped illegal aliens vote.
- In Wisconsin, campaign workers for Democratic Governor Jim Doyle gave out pastries, soda and quarters to the mentally disabled in a bingo game, then directed them to absentee ballots in the next room.
- In the 163-strong Minnesota town of Coates, 94 voter registration forms had addresses that matched Jake's Strip Club.
- The NAACP in Florida held a registration drive at the Duval County jail to register felons, who then requested and in some cases cast absentee ballots at the risk of committing a felony. No wonder why Democrats are against the death penalty.
- In Marion County, Indiana, voters seem to have misspelled their names on applications for absentee ballots and used correction fluid to get their addresses right, but couldn't always match their on-file signatures.
- A roomful of senior citizens in Maryland was told to vote Democratic because Republicans would take away their benefits. Told by whom? By the people running the adult daycare center, which is funded by Medicaid and is a booming Baltimore County business.
- In Arkansas, a since fired Democratic Party staffer registered hundreds of residents, businesses and deceased people from a phone book.
- A heavily Democratic Arkansas county kept the polls open 90 minutes extra. The same Arkansas Democratic Party that paid people now under investigation in South Dakota to register voters.
- In South Dakota a dead woman applied for an absentee ballot in two counties, investigators recovered charred absentee ballot applications from an independent contractor hired by the state Democratic Party, who copied information and forged signatures onto new applications. She worked in several counties around Indian reservations, which have been targeted by these efforts. Interestingly enough, Tom Daschle saw this as evidence of "a concerted Republican effort to…launch initiatives intended to suppress Native American voting."

Can you supply such a track record of fraud for the Republican party? I am sure there are isolated incidences but to look at the facts one cannot deny the Democrats are old pros at voting fraud and stealing elections. The fact that REAL evidence of Republican vote tampering has not been found and reported, as you know it would be, speaks, no SCREAMS, volumes.

Is electronic, touch-screen, type voting even necessary?
Parts of Florida had punch cards in 2000 that caused a big mess so the solution is all touch-screen all the time? This so-called reform to "update" America's polling places was a huge overreaction and is ineffective and expensive.

I would support Voter ID cards AND paper ballots (except the punch kind, fill in a damn oval). I hate it when either side won't support simple things to fix the problems because they think they'll lose votes as a result.

Take Occam's razor to these stupid electronic paperless voting machines and start slashing.

As usual, LG blames people for following the law, when he disagrees with the result.
The law required that felons be removed from the voter rolls, since they are not permitted to vote? What would you have them do, be like Democrats and allow people to vote illegally?

As to Democratic districts being short of machines, you have no one to blame but the Democrats. In every state, the counties are in charge of running the elections. If the Democratic election supervisors are too stupid, or too cheap to buy enough voting machines, why is that the Republicans fault.

Finally, I'm trying to decide why poor people would be disproportionally affected by requiring picture IDs? Does LG believe that poor people don't photograph? Sort of like the other undead Democrtatic voters?

Unfortunately, lever machines can be rigged too
The old lever machines were trusted because they were introduced in an era when we didn't have daily reports of information technology misuse.

We develop trust in complex systems when we see them working correctly over long periods of time - e.g., we trust avionics systems enough to fly because millions of passengers are transported safely. Prof Reynolds has pointed out the reason why, in some sense, voting machines will never be trusted - voters have no way of verifying the results.

Imagine for a moment that a team of government and academic experts scrutinize a voting system thoroughly and declare it secure. Will that convince you, especially when practically every other computer-based system (including all previous voting machines) that you've ever heard of has reported vulnerabilities?

Even if the machines were completely secure, we would be in essentially the same place we are now. We would still have conspiracy theories and widespread distrust, because very few people could be convinced that the machines are secure.

Secure voting machines, of course, are not the objective, only a purported means to achieve voter confidence. Unfortunately, with no way for voters to verify their accuracy, no voting machine is likely to inspire much confidence.

Other modern industrial nations use paper ballots even though voting machines have been available for decades.

Which will inspire more voter confidence - paper ballot voting with teams of observers from all parties watching what happens to the ballots, or a collection of beige boxes labeled "secure"?

Well, LG, where's your response?
LG, Tlaloc makes a pretty compelling case that despite your squeals of outrage at allegagions the GOP is guilty of "creative voting," you dems are no stranger to voter fraud. You're always demanding specifics? So how do you respond? Or, does the cat have your tongue?

The Civil Rights Commission Hearings reached different conclusions
But what do they know??

"Statewide, based upon county-level statistical estimates, black voters were nearly 10 times more likely than nonblack voters to have their ballots rejected.

Estimates indicate that approximately 14.4 percent of Florida’s black voters cast ballots that were rejected. This compares with approximately 1.6 percent of nonblack Florida voters who did not have their presidential votes counted.

Statistical analysis shows that the disparity in ballot spoilage rates—i.e., ballots cast but not counted—between black and nonblack voters is not the result of education or literacy differences. This conclusion is supported by Governor Jeb Bush’s Select Task Force on Election Procedures, Standards and Technology, which found that error rates stemming from uneducated, uninformed, or disinterested voters account for less than 1 percent of the problems.

Approximately 11 percent of Florida voters were African American; however, African Americans cast about 54 percent of the 180,000 spoiled ballots in Florida during the November 2000 election based on estimates derived from county-level data. These statewide estimates were corroborated by the results in several counties based on actual precinct data.

These witnesses include local election officials, poll workers, ordinary voters, and activists. Among the sworn testimony:

One potential voter waited hours at the polls because of a registration mix-up as poll workers attempted to call the office of the supervisor of elections. The call never got through and the individual was not allowed to vote. A former poll worker herself, she testified that she never saw anything like it during her 18 years as a poll worker.

A poll worker in Miami-Dade County with 15 years of experience testified, “By far this was the worst election I have ever experienced. After that election, I decided I didn’t want to work as a clerk anymore.”

A poll worker in Palm Beach County testified that she had to use her personal cell phone to attempt to contact the election supervisor’s office. Despite trying all day, she only got through two or three times over the course of 12 hours.

A Broward County poll worker testified that in past elections it took about 10 minutes to get through to the elections supervisor. During the course of the November 2000 election, she turned away approximately 40–50 potential voters because she could not access the supervisor of elections.

A Boynton Beach poll worker explained how his precinct workers turned away about 30–50 potential voters because they could not get through to the supervisor of elections. He was successful only once during an eight-hour period.

Other persons testified about waiting in long lines only to be ultimately denied their right to vote.

http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/vote2000/report/exesum.htm

Mary Frances Berry...
is gone now.

And Katherine Harris soon will be.
What's your point? That the commission made all this stuff up?

I agree -- Touch Screen Voting - A technology that is not needed.
Paper ballots with optical readers have worked reliably for years. They provide a paper trail that can be re-read by machine or manually counted. What is better than that?

Punch cards should be outlawed... Computers haven't used them for 50 years. I think touch screens should be banned too. They work fine for many applications, but when voting I want something that a real recount can be done on.

What was the problem then?
If spoiled ballots were not the result of stupidity what was the problem? Were they defaced or not readable?

Voters should be registered well before the election, and then no calls to the election supervisor would be needed. Seems the workers should have the power to reject voters on there own. Remember only legal voters get to vote, must be a citizen, and a resident of the precinct, and be registered.

I new law passed by Congress will require photo-ID by all voters in 2008 and beyond... Long over due legislation. To get the photo-ID proof of citizenship will be required.

Oddly enough, they couldn't name a single black person who was denied the right to vote.
I'm not surprised that you pull this discredited report out of your hmmm, ..., hat.

So what, she had nothing to do with how the elections were run.
That the commission made that stuff up was proven years ago.

It did not amount to a "hill of beans",...
but Miss Berry did her level best to make it appear like a mountain range. Her history as Chair of the Commission speaks for itself.

Ask Katherine Harris
Maybe she can explain the huge statistical discrepancies.

> Voters should be registered well before the election, and then no calls to the election supervisor would be needed. Seems the workers should have the power to reject voters on there own.

the problem was, there were problems in the registratins. Again, K. Harris

>Remember only legal voters get to vote, must be a citizen, and a resident of the precinct, and be registered.

And nobody at all disputes that. It was just under Katherine Harris, lots of problems occurred - disproportionately in Democratic precincts. And not just the black ones.

Discredited by whom?
By you saying so??

That's what Republicans say...
....so it must be true. Sure! I mean, that's what they say about reports to Congress of contractors stealing billions in Iraq. Documented, forward and back, with details from people on the ground, but it's all made up.

And that's what you say.
..and you're doing your level best to make it appear like nothing. She has no credibility; you, a guy on the internet with a keyboard, know all.

By all means, get yourself appinted Chair of the United States commission on civil rights, so we can benefit from your wisdom.

A few facts left out...
as usual. Here is the telling omission straight from the report you source:

>"The report does not find that the highest officials of the state conspired to disenfranchise voters. Moreover, even if it was foreseeable that certain actions by officials led to voter disenfranchisement, this alone does not mean that intentional discrimination occurred. Instead, the report concludes that officials ignored the mounting evidence of rising voter registration rates in communities."

No conspiracy. No intentional discrimination. Merely bad planning on the part of those county officials in charge of overseeing the voting. So the Civil Rights Commission pretty much reached the same conclusion I did. Next time use the preliminary report instead of the final report. The preliminary report does not contain that paragraph and you can appear to actually have a source that supports your mythology.

Not to mention that Broward, Miami-Dade, and Palm Beach counties are controlled by Democrats. This is the reason Gore chose those countries to recount. If they can't reach the Democrat in charge how is that Republican voter suppression?

You also fail to note that those turned away from the polls were not registered. Whose fault is that? Many left because of long lines. Once again, whose fault is that?

When the Democrats stop coercing and/or dragging felons, illegal immigrants, the homeless, and the mentally handicapped to the polls they might be able to rely on those who took the time to register and who were able to properly schedule their time to vote.

Add to this Gore's desire to discount military ballots, which spurred their inclusion in the recount, and the fact that the liberal media already declared Gore the winner before the polls were closed and you have the makings of the liberal Democrats shooting themselves in the foot in an attempt to steal another election.

Nice try buddy.

By their own admission...
The final report by the USCCR states that the Commission "does not find that the highest officials of the state conspired to disenfranchise voters. Moreover, even if it was foreseeable that certain actions by officials led to voter disenfranchisement, this alone does not mean that intentional discrimination occurred."

Read it and weep.

No conspiracy, so what?? And do we really usually think the preliminary report is more accurate than
No conspiracy was proved, but the elections were a notorious mess, because of a grossly wrong-headed computer program to remove "convicted felons" from the rolls, the problems with which have been documented.

Spare me the crap about "the liberal media." This was a government report, showing widespread, persistent problem. "No conspiracy" simply means no one could be prosecuted for it.

>You also fail to note that those turned away from the polls were not registered. Whose fault is that?

For thousands, it was wrongful disenfranchisement due to those bogus felon lists that were never checked against Florida records.

>Next time use the preliminary report instead of the final report. The preliminary report does not contain that paragraph and you can appear to actually have a source that supports your mythology.

This is really as silly as it gets. Why not look up the words "preliminary" and "final."

>Not to mention that Broward, Miami-Dade, and Palm Beach counties are controlled by Democrats.

The complainst by black voeters werent from Broward, Miami Dade and Palm Beach counties.

That's pretty lame, isn't it??
They didn't find a felony conspiracy, only widespread confusion and disenfranchisement caused, particularly, by a bogus purging of voter lists of "felons" using a list assembled without even elementary safeguards. It wasn't intentional, but lots and lots of voters didn't get to vote.

But that's fine with you, because few Republicans were kicked off using this list. Would you be saying this if the situation were reversed?

Let's go through your points...
>"No conspiracy was proved, but the elections were a notorious mess, because of a grossly wrong-headed computer program to remove "convicted felons" from the rolls, the problems with which have been documented."

Please provide the names of those who were unjustly removed from the roles. If there is documentation then give it up.

I also like the way you write "convicted felons". That program was legal and good for the system. Felons, by law, should not be able to vote. Much to the Democrats chagrin...

>"Spare me the crap about "the liberal media." This was a government report, showing widespread, persistent problem. "No conspiracy" simply means no one could be prosecuted for it."

The liberal media bears part of the blame for Gore's loss. Early reporting meant many Democrats already thought Florida was in the bag.

And actually, "no conspiracy" means no institutional or intentional malfeasance on the part of the government, which is what you are claiming. Now Gore's drive to purge the military ballots was intentional.

Once again you should read first and source afterwards. Yet another example of Eric being screwed by his own evidence.

>"For thousands, it was wrongful disenfranchisement due to those bogus felon lists that were never checked against Florida records."

Yet these "thousands" have never materialized. Never any names just third hand accounts. Perhaps you can explain how the felon lists were "bogus" I see no mention of falsified felon lists in your document, or anywhere else for that matter. Could it be that you are pulling this out of your nether regions?

>"This is really as silly as it gets. Why not look up the words "preliminary" and "final."

Ummm... a preliminary report is a report on findings before all evidence is taken into account and fact-checking occurs. Final means the end result of the topic being investigated. Have you ever created a report?

Boy, you really do have a reading comprehension problem don't you?

>"The complainst by black voeters werent from Broward, Miami Dade and Palm Beach counties."

Those were just the counties you quoted. Yes, I am the silly one. You really have lost it on this one.

You should know lame...
your sourcing a document that disputes your claims is evidence of it.

Let's see...

Your claim of conspiracy is now downgraded to confusion.

Your claim of "thousands" is now downgraded to "lots and lots".

It should also be noted that report states that the "bogus purging" is lawful and that "Once on the list, the process places the burden on the eligible voter to justify remaining on the voter rolls". Once again it places the burden on the voter to justify their registration. The fact that more minorities are on the felon list is due to a greater percentage of minorities being felons.

Pretty simple math but hey, we can't even trust you to read.

>"But that's fine with you, because few Republicans were kicked off using this list."

It's the Democrats that court felons. That is not my fault.

>"Would you be saying this if the situation were reversed?"

No. I don't buy into idiotic conspiracy theories like you. Especially ones as baseless as this one.

It's not me with the reading comprehension problem.
I made no claim of conspiracy. I quoted, verbatim, the text of the Civil Rights Commission report.

> should also be noted that report states that the "bogus purging" is lawful

It stated that the bogus purging broke no laws. That didn't make it right.

I also like the way you write "convicted felons". That program was legal and good for the system. Felons, by law, should not be able to vote.

No disagreement. The reason 'convicted felons" is in quotes is because many of the people removed _were not_ convicted felons. They happened to have the same names as convicted felons from other states.

>Ummm... a preliminary report is a report on findings before all evidence is taken into account and fact-checking occurs. Final means the end result of the topic being investigated. Have you ever created a report?

Look, buddy, here's what you wrote, verbatim:

"Next time use the preliminary report instead of the final report. The preliminary report does not contain that paragraph and you can appear to actually have a source that supports your mythology. "

It's not me with the reading problem.

The felon purge program that purged non-felons
From the Palm Beach Post

PALM BEACH - While millions of Floridians spent Nov. 7 casting their votes for president, Clarence Mayville was fighting, and failing, to clear his name.

Mayville went to his precinct in Polk County's Auburndale that Tuesday morning to cast his vote for George W. Bush. Poll workers told him he was on a state list of suspected felons, making him ineligible to vote.

Civil rights groups saw it as a deliberate attempt to disenfranchise black voters: Blacks accounted for 44 percent of those removed from the rolls, though they make up only about 11 percent of Florida's voters.

Mayville, 50, a diesel mechanic and Army veteran, said it was a mistake. But a day of haggling with election workers failed to clear up the mess.

"I'm madder than hell," Mayville said. "I called them over there (at the elections office) and I raised hell. . . . You can't get an answer from them."

Finally Mayville tore up his voter registration card and stomped out without voting. It wasn't until March that he received a letter from the Florida Department of Law Enforcement telling him what he already knew: He had no criminal record. By then, the damage was done.

In the months since the election, no one has been able to say with any certainty just how many legitimate Florida voters like Mayville were turned away from the polls.

http://www.commondreams.org/cgi-bin/print.cgi?file=/headlines01/0527-03.htm

Stop making up my arguments
I made no claim of "conspiracy" I noted that the Civil Rights Commission had found serious errors in the election. They didn't recommend that anyone be prosecuted for conspiracy. That doesn't mean that the election was well run. Nor does it absolve Katherine Harris of responsibility.

> It should also be noted that report states that the "bogus purging" is lawful

That doesn't mean it was either right or justifiable, considering the errors involved.

>It's the Democrats that court felons.

Both Republicans and Democrats try to appeal to black voters, democrats more successfully. Nobody "courts felons."

> >"Would you be saying this if the situation were reversed?"

No. I don't buy into idiotic conspiracy theories like you. Especially ones as baseless as this one.

I haven't used the word "conspiracy." You have.

Did anyone else notice?
Has anyone else noticed that all the counties in Florida that had problems with voting in 2000 were Democratic strongholds?

Democratic operatives have historically preferred voting systems that allow manipulation. That is how LBJ got elected to the Senate in 1948, how JFK won Illinois in 1960, how they tried to steal Florida for Gore in 2000, and I bet many here can easily add to the list.

Since before 2000...
Since before 2000 Brevard County Florida has used paper ballots where the voter uses a marker to fill in a circle with a marker and then the voter feeds it into a scanning machine that is also the ballot box.

The scanner reads the data and spits back out the paper ballot if there is a problem. During the recent primary, I didn't want to vote for any of the candidates for a particular office, so as a protest, I marked all the candidates, because I thought not voting for any of them might be viewed as an oversight. I wanted to spoil the ballot.

Well, the third time my ballot was ejected I had the undivided attention of all the poll workers of the 3 precincts in the local park's recreation hall. The looks on their faces was priceless. After I explained my protest about the candidates' dirty campaigns, I was told I had to leave them all blank if I didn't want any to get my vote. Then they gave me a new ballot.

Lack of logic behind the concern for the poor
There is a distinct lack of logic behind the alleged Democrat concern for the poor not having photo IDs and therefore being denied the right to vote.

Don't welfare recipients need a photo ID to cash their welfare checks?

That's what the report says. Why don't you read what you cite for once.
...

That's what the record shows
she has no credibility, never did, never will.

She has been asked
There were no "huge" statistical discrepencies.

The voter registration rolls were the responsibility of the county chairmen. In every county where there were problems, the Democrats were in charge.

There were not lots of problems. There were a handfull of problems, no more than in most states.

Once again, the responsibility for running elections rest with the counties. So if you want to complain to anyone, complain to the Democrats who ran the counties.

Just read the reports
They go on and on about rumors of problems, but nowhere in the report do they bother to point to a single, actual, documented case.

The report was just another liberal hit piece. The Republicans on the panel weren't even allowed to review the report before it was released to the press.

Why don't you complain to the Democrats who were in charge of the voter rolls?
...

Why don't you ever look up the facts?
It wasn't the democrats who purged the voter lists using the suspect felon lists.

Speaking of credibilty: who the hell are you to bring this up??
You have never documeted any of your wild accusations. But you're saying the chair of the Civil Rights Commission has no cred??

And her answers have been bogus
>There were no "huge" statistical discrepencies.

They are in the report. Which you haven't read.

You mean, the reports you haven't read?
If you're read them, you should be able to quote and explain the discrepancies you claim. Since you haven''t quoted or explained anything, why should anyone believe you?

As a matter of fact, people did notice
And that's why the Civil Rights Commission investigated.

Why don't you cite what you talk about for once??
I mean, this is ridiculous. You say the report says it, but you won't quote it, and give no indication at all of having even looked at it. Why don't you just once take the trouble to find sources for what you say instead of just typing the first thing that comes into your head???

Biometrics
Everyone has some form of biometric data that can be used to verify voter registration and voting.

Of course the democrats will start collecting fingers and eyeballs so the dead can vote.

Happy Halloween!

Florida ballot terminals favor Republicans
found on 'theregister.co.uk' - article with above title. sigh

Time for the next Amendment
This is the text of the Amendment I propose:-

"Elections to all public offices, from POTUS down, shall have a paper trial, no matter what devices are used".

And this has to be taken up on war footing and done with before the 2008 Presidential elections.

Finally Fgured it out Lemual =Loathesome Ever Marxist Uneducated Effete Loser
Oh come on hit me up with one of your weird homoerotic projections- let us see YOUR inane blither on display.

Judging credibility requires something more than living in mom's basement and subscribing to the Nation and Rolling Stoned.

The so-called "civil rights" commission is a freakin' joke-nothing more than a forum and sinecure for the most irrational and paranoid. There was a time it served a purpose, now its just useless, like you. And yes, Mary Frances Berry's antics were well documented and the tip of the iceberg.

Hogwash! What about the GOP's e-Voting machines like Diebold, Hart, ES&S
Boy! As soon as there is a possibly remote chance that that an e-voting machine manufacturer might not be beholden to the GOP, there is SUDDEN ALARM that the election could be "fixed"???!!! Where in the blazes has the Committee on Foreign Investment been since the year 2000?

There is substantial evidence of vote tampering by the GOP. Simply go to blackboxvoting.com, bradblog.com, etc. Read the Harry Hursti Report from Berkeley & Stanford University. Read the Princeton Study - and watch the video where the Diebold machine can be hacked in LESS THAN ONE MINUTE.

The Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States is concerned only that Sequoia's machine will fail to "err to the right" like all the other GOP e-voting machine manufacturers' machines do.

Fortunately, in California, we have the right to demand - and receive - a verifiable paper ballot. (Unfortunately, the Republicans' votes will probably be counted twice by the Diebold machines anyway.)

Zel

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